Transcript: The Secret Sauce of a Successful Copywriter with Lindsay Smith

Joanne Bolt (Intro)

The power of a podcast extends well beyond plugging in the mind. So if you're ready to learn how it can help you build a big business, then I’m your best friend, Hi, I'm Joanne Bolt and I am obsessed with all things podcasting, and creating an unapologetically big revenue business with it from podcast guesting to podcast hosting and everything in between. We're gonna dive into it all and show you step by awesome step how using a podcast can and will grow your business. So grab a glass of wine and pop your headphones on. Cuz, Girlfriend, happy hour has begun here on the B-Word.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Alright, babes, welcome back to another episode of the B word. Today, I've got Lindsay Smith on Lindsay is, well, I'll call her “Word Smith”. She has a copy writing goddess who really understands what words can do for your business. So Lindsay, take it away. And tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yeah, for sure. I'm Lindsay, I live in Canada. And yeah, I'm a copywriter and a content expert. So I've been sort of working full time in that space for the past 20 years actually started up my career as a journalist. So I was a broadcast journalist. And I sort of accidentally fell into advertising where I stayed for about 12 years, I worked as a copywriter. So traditionally, in advertising the way it works, you pair a copywriter up with a art director. And basically, you're given like a brief for whatever product or service and you have to work together to come up with a bunch of ideas for ads. So I did that for a really, really long time. And then because it was very good in like the digital side of stuff like back in the day, there were banner ads and stuff. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

I don't think we see those or I do remember those. Yes, yes. 

 

Lindsay Smith 

So, I was doing a lot of that I was doing a lot of like web copy type stuff, email campaigns. So it just sort of lent itself more to like content and social media. And oh my gosh, even when I was working full time was like in like social media management that was like, probably 10 years ago, and that it was very different than than it is now. Like it was like basically, you know, I'd create like a Word document for clients and be like, and it was like a Facebook business page. It was like, here's what I'm going to write on this day. And here's the image that's going to go on that. So that's what it looked like. And then it sort of shifted a bit bit differently. And it's why I was working full time doing like social media stuff. And then I'm so I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, after you have kids. It's just like sort of not sustainable anymore. And so after I had kids advertising is such a transient industry that so many people that I had working with, they just sort of started contacting me and they were like, Hey, do you have some time to help us with this pitch? Do you have some time to write this web copy? And I was like, Sure, okay. And it just kind of sort of took on clients that way. And then eventually, it just sort of, yeah, I just sort of sort of started gaining social media clients and took them on myself. And then sort of two, three years ago, it became so easy to do other people's content for them. And I was kind of like, it just became kind of boring. And it was like I could do it in my sleep. It wasn't very exciting. And then I came up with this idea. I was like, I wonder if like all of this like 20 years of experience I have I wonder if I could teach other people what I know. And so like teach them to do it for themselves. So that's what I do. They still do take on like done for you copywriting clients, and I really nerd out on that, like a really nerd out words.

 

Joanne Bolt 

We all nerd out on something. Yours is words? Yes. Yep.

 

Lindsay Smith 

And then but more on like the content side. That's more sort of where I teach other people.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Okay, it's what I do, though. Question for you from someone like me that I have so many thoughts up in my head and I find that they sound great here. And when I put them on paper or a caption for IG like suckage happens. So do you find that it's easier? Or is there a different method to writing captions for Facebook versus Instagram versus Tik Tok versus LinkedIn? Or can you write one caption and use it for all of them?

 

Lindsay Smith 

I say write one caption and use it for all them.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Okay, there is no real difference. I mean,

 

Lindsay Smith 

I get I don't use LinkedIn very much for my own self. I know people have a lot of success with it, depending on what kind of industry you're in. Like, I have one client who was like, she's a financial coach. So she gets a lot of clients through LinkedIn. You know, I think it really depends what industry you're in. And I'm like, I'm not like sort of your average content person. I'm very much about like simplifying it. And I feel like you're gonna get strategy's never gonna go anywhere. It's always gonna be around forever and ever and ever. Right? When it comes to content. What I feel like nobody's really talking about is like we talked about, like, really feeling good about the stuff you're putting out there. And like really aligning sort of like your energy and your intuition and I think And a lot of people come to me because they're like saying that, like I have all these ideas and so messy. And so one of my, you know, my superpowers is to take that really messy stuff in your head and like make it make sense and be like, here's your plan for the next like 30 days. And here's what we're going to do. And most of my clients when they work with me, one of the questions I always ask is like, How does this feel like I want people to create content that feels good? If somebody tells you Oh, this is what you should do? That should word. This is my favorite emoji. This one. Guy don't believe in this should have anything stop shitting all over yourself.

 

Joanne Bolt 

I love that that may be the quote from this episode, stop Shut up. Alright, so let me pick your brain a little bit about what is the hot topic? It is chat GPT from a copywriter word, specialist, you love words like What is your thought behind the AI? When to use it, when not to use it? Do you hate it? Love it, live with it?

 

Lindsay Smith 

This might be an unpopular opinion. I'm like a real grandma, when it comes to GPT. I was at it. I attended a training on it. And I was kind of like, okay, I'm gonna give this a chance. Like, let's see, you know, I followed like all the prompts that we were given copy sort of the voice, like the brand voice of all of us by putting like our website, copy into the thing and giving these specific prompts. And the stuff it's spat out, I just was like, this is horrible. And I would never write this. Like, I just feel like and most people and I asked this question a lot, because I'm very curious about people who do use it. I want to know, what are you using it for? And like, how is it benefiting you? Because I am very curious. And most people say like, oh, yeah, it's really great for this, this and this, but you know, I have to go in and edit it all. I'm kind of like, well, what's the point? And yeah, somebody's like an as a person who writing copy comes so easily to me. I'm kind of like, why would I put all this stuff in this thing? Have it spit something out at me? And use words like, oh, must be on a journey? Like, I would never say that in an email?

 

Joanne Bolt 

Yeah, so Buzzsprout, which is my podcast platform, they recently released AI for like that, that short, you know, Episode blurb that goes out on your podcast, and I was like, alright, I'll try it. And, ya know, the title of it came up with and the wording it put in there. I'm like, you can tell such a difference between the episodes, I used AI. And the ones that I wrote myself, because it just didn't sound at all, like something I would put in there.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yes. And I played around with it a little bit since then. And I'm kind of like, I had bigger expectations or something. Like I used to always buy cottage cheese. I was like, one day I'm gonna like this. I don't want to buy it. That's how I feel how Chechi btw, I'm kind of like, I don't I don't like it.

 

Joanne Bolt 

And I did not notice its place and some things and I think it probably yes, someone who's not using a copywriter and struggles with writing, it probably does at least get them started? I did. I'm not sure I'm bought into completely letting it take over your world of where you need your copy written?

 

 Lindsay Smith 

Yes. And I think, you know, for the longest time, it was kind of like the robots are coming for your job. Right. Like, you know, and I think a lot of copywriters were kind of like, oh, what's happening? What do we do? And now I'm not that worried?

 

Joanne Bolt 

Well, I mean, if you think about it's kind of like Carvana, you know, people thought that Carvana might put car dealers out of business, because now you can just basically order your car from a vending machine. And now Carvanha is actually the one filing for bankruptcy, because what they discovered is people still want to drive the car that they're going to purchase before they pay the money for it.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, the type of client that I work with, they want something very specific. And I don't think like, I don't think it's gonna go away. I don't think people are gonna want to not work with other people anymore. So for sure, like somebody who does want to use chat GPT and use it to create web copy, or descriptions or ideas or whatever. Amazing. That's maybe not my client. Know what I mean?

 

Joanne Bolt 

Yeah. All right. So what is your favorite client to take on? To write their copy for like websites or course material or who this is a good voice write books?

 

Lindsay Smith 

No, I never have No, I never have. And I'm much better at editing books that I am. I mean, I've attempted to read a book many times, but I've and that's another thing. I just was like, Yeah, I always like felt like I should write a book when I was like, I don't want to. I don't want to. So yes, usually it's people. Most of my like done for you clients come to me because they've probably like DIY their website copy. And I knew did you do you notice when you do that, that was your answer. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

I came to that where you're at? 

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yeah, I know. Oh, yeah. Yes, exactly. Yes. So you're my, You're my ideal client. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

Like yeah, did that okay. All right. 

 

Lindsay Smith 

And it's usually like usually, like people like you, you have all the information. It's just a matter of getting it in. And this is why it's so hard to describe what a copywriter does, like yes, we use words we use the right words in the right order. or to evoke the right emotion? Like it's a really combo deal. And it's kind of like a sixth sense, right? And so usually, you're kind of my client, like they're they've dry their copy, it doesn't really make sense. They're not happy with it. It's not converting. They're like, nobody, you know, sometimes it's a sales page. And people are, you know, it's not converting. So usually, it's just about clarity. Like, it's just about taking all that stuff that you already know, and putting it into a format, or words that makes sense and makes the biggest impact. That's usually the way it works. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

And so right now, I do want to jump in really fast for everyone who's like, Oh, let me go to Joanne bolt.com. And check out what Lindsey did on the website. I didn't have her yet, although I will. We haven't gotten to every page on this site yet. So if you find those pages, like the homepage, where you're kind of like, I'm not really sure this sounds great. Don't worry, Lindsay didn't write that that was me DIY in it. If you find that page in the site that you're like, do this, like blood is good? Yeah, she probably enter hands all in that one. So give me a little grace here as I'm working through things. Okay.

 

Lindsay Smith 

All right. Oh, to be fair, there's a lot of great stuff on your site. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

Oh, it is literally me, like just do whatever comes pops out of my head. 

 

Lindsay Smith 

So, yeah. And sometimes that's what it takes, like, sometimes, you know, and a lot of people come to me because they have kind of like, done it themselves. And it's usually like an editing gig, like all the information is there, you just have to reorganize it. So it makes sense. And it's clear.

 

Joanne Bolt 

And I think one of the critical things to use someone like your genius is, you know, maybe not homepage, if I want to pinch pennies or whatnot, she's not expensive, by all means. So don't think that I was pinching pennies, but like the homepage, okay, it drew you and you heard my voice because it's all over the place. But when you're talking ladies about like a sales page, where you need to take a customer on a journey to where they actually hit the purchase button, like, that's when I don't recommend DIY in it. Because you may know in your head, like this product is the bomb, it is awesome. Of course, they're gonna hit the buy button and pay the money. And then you're finding out that they're not like, like, that is definitely when you gotta reach out and say, Okay, go fix this, because I've missed the mark somewhere.

 

Lindsay Smith 

And I think that's very, very common, like most people's website, it's like, yeah, everything else. You know, like the basic stuff, my about page, my services, whatever all that is looks great. It's usually when people, it's usually a sales page for people get a bit mucked up. So like, you know, what was great about you is that you were very clear about the product you were offering. Right? So you knew exactly what the benefit was like you knew what people were going to get from it, you knew what you wanted to say about it. So for me, it was super easy to put it into words. What's tricky sometimes is when people come to me, and they're not really sure what they're offering that part, if you're not really clear on what you're offering, it's very hard to describe what it is obviously,

 

Joanne Bolt 

Okay, well, let's put that boat up. Because ladies, if you're not clear on what you're offering, that could be the first step as to why you're not making sales. If you can't communicate it to your copywriter, because you don't really know what you're selling. Like, let's have an in depth conversation over what your offering product is, before we bring in the people that put the bow on it.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yes, yes. And I think sometimes I feel like, you know, especially as women, we're often sort of like married to this idea of like, what we should there's that word, again, what we should be doing, or like what's expected, and what we really want to do, and what we really want to offer and what we're really good at, like, I have this conversation a lot with a lot of women entrepreneurs are like, you know, I have this thing. And, you know, I really love working with Delta Delta to adapt, but I don't want to leave out these people. And I'm like, why not? Why can't you leave those people out? 

 

Joanne Bolt 

Yeah, like, let them go to someone that is more aligned with them. Because if you're if you're bringing in people into your world that you're not aligned with like, they're not going to have the experience that you want them to have anyway. And so it's better to not speak to them and speak to the people that are going to have the right experience, because you'll get better clients and more long lasting business.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yeah. And sometimes it's just about owning that just being like, Yeah, this is what I'm going to do. This is what I'm going to focus on. Right. Yeah, you know, and I hate the word. Have a I really don't like buzzwords, I hate the word niche.

 

Joanne Bolt 

My days Oh, but that's okay.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Is it one of your favorites?

 

Joanne Bolt 

Yeah. Well, it's the concept, maybe not the word but I was like, you really do need to niche down. You don't want to rephrase it as get clarity, get clear. Pick a lane and stay in it like yes, whatever you want to call it. It is when you speak to the masses, you speak to no one like that. Yes, that is very true. So niche target audience, ideal audience avatar, like whatever you want to call it, all those the same concept. 

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yes. And you do need to get really clear on that. Right. Like, you know, there was someone in one of my networking groups and she was very clear on working with With women over 50 on weight loss, and I was like, well, that's golden, right? Like, because already, you know, if you start here, and you go like this, well, they knew you know exactly who you're speaking to, every single time you show up, right? And, and it's not like it wasn't even like overall fitness of, of whatever, it was very clear on weight loss. And I was like, well that's brilliant. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

And I love that because, let's be honest, she could have probably tried to do overall fitness and thought she was narrowing it down overall fitness for women. And then when you get into over 50, because metabolisms have slowed, and life habits have changed and weight loss plans and nutrition looks different at 50 than it does it 40, 30 and 20. And so, if you tried to put one program together, you were gonna lose the people, well, and that's it.

 

Lindsay Smith 

And it just makes your job so much harder, right? Like it's, you know, even when I work with people who have like a physical product, and I do work with a lot of people who have like a physical product, like sometimes they have a hard time describing the products and that to be fair. Yeah, a lot of what I do is like product descriptions, sometimes you just like do so much of it. It just all sounds the same after a while. Yeah, for example, I was working with someone who she sells like yoga accessories like bolsters and you know, like the lovely lavender eyebags and stuff like that. I bags. No, so it was called mask? Yeah, no, you're talking about me? Yeah, I've got my own eye bags.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Literally. I don't use them. Because look at these, like you can pack for Europe, but okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

 

Lindsay Smith 

I feel you anyways. And so she needs some top with her product descriptions. Because sometimes I find that you're so in it, like you just can't even see straight. And it's the same for my own business. Like I redid my website not too long ago. So a girlfriend redesigned it all. She was like, Okay, I need some copy for like these programs, I just was like, it took, yeah, like it. And it just, it took me a minute to be like what I want to see about my own stuff. So sometimes when you have so much information about your own business, it's tough to like, extract and be like what's really important for people to know.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Well, and being able to utilize someone who's, you know, whole world revolves around putting words together, but now they're looking at your product, your service, your, you know, your offer from a fresh perspective. And so they can put the words together from the consumer who doesn't know anything about it, versus you're so in it that you doesn't dawn on you that someone doesn't understand the jargon that you're using, or the why they should have something.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yes. And I think sometimes we forget, right? Like, I was working with someone recently. And she had a like, a lot of acronyms. And I was like, okay, so somebody's, like finding your content. Would they know what those acronyms mean? She was like, probably not. I was like, No, well then spell it out. Like, you know, and that's an example of being so in it, that, like, you often have to write like, you're speaking to a five year old, because, and you have to repeat it, like you would with a five year old. Because, like, depending on how people are finding you via whatever content they're finding you, you kind of have to explain it again. And again. Like for example, like, you know, I have this like, email, freebie training. Right. And even in the in the subject, it was kind of like, you know, typical sort of like lead magnet like, you know, when you sign up, you get an email. Awesome. Thanks for signing up. And then, you know, you get an email a day for five days. And then I was kind of like, you know, what people's inboxes are so flooded with stuff. Yeah. Why don't I put the name of what they signed up for? In the subject line. So even that little tiny piece of word. So each five emails, they got the name of what they signed up for is in the subject line. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

Yes. So like, listen, he was on subject, like, you know, I'm producing email sequences, and I wouldn't think to put Joanne bolt. But I did actually see the other day in my inbox. It came from Lindsey Swartz at powerhouse women. And it had in brackets, Lindsey Schwartz, Nick, like, you know, and then it had the email subject line. And I actually read that one because I was like, oh, yeah, that's an email that doesn't need to go in junk. I actually like her material. You know, and Amy Porterfield recently started doing some of that, too. She used to send out stuff all the time, because you know, she's a list building Queen on email, remembering your air quoting, if you're not watching the YouTube, or the live, but she's recently started putting in, you know, blocks, Amy Porterfield, or she'll put the name of the course like list building, blah, blah, blah, or, you know, digital courses, so you know what you're about to read. And I found myself I more likely to click the button and read the email.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yes, yeah, exactly. So it's like tiny little things like that, that people often don't think about. Because we're so in it. It's so hard to be like, Okay, well, what's on the other side, right, like if I if I was the person receiving this email, and that's why it's so important to like test Your emails and send them to yourself to be like, how would I receive this? I think there's like an episode of Friends or something where like, I don't know, maybe I'm making this up like you write a letter tears. Or like you read a mean letter to someone, then you send it to yourself and reread it.

 

Joanne Bolt 

I haven't seen well, maybe I have seen that episode. I feel like I've seen all the friends ones, but that one's not coming to mind by Oh, maybe

 

Lindsay Smith 

I don't know. Maybe I made it up.

 

Joanne Bolt 

I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying in the the vast knowledge of friends stuff. That one probably just isn't in my brain because I did watch some friends episodes the other day on the airplane. I was like, I don't remember these episodes. But I was like nine when that show came out. 

 

Lindsay Smith 

So there's, does it stand up to the test of time? Like, is it still funny? 

 

Joanne Bolt 

Well, so the funny thing to me is, I do still find it funny. But now that I'm rewatching it through the lens of a mom, because my teenagers have recently fallen in love with friends and they're going back through all the old episodes. Some of the jokes they make I cringe because I'm like, Oh, do I, I'm so uncomfortable sitting here in the room next to my 13 year old as they're talking about some very sexual stuff. But then I'm like, I didn't catch that when I was their age. They're, you know, maybe they're catching it because they have access to YouTube than Tik Tok. And they're probably more advanced than I was, you know, like, knowledge wise. Let's still like yeah, so now it stands up to time, but it's a little bit more cringe worthy as a parent. Yes. Yeah.

 

Lindsay Smith 

That's so interesting.

 

Joanne Bolt 

I still my favorite episode is the turkey on the head. Courtney Collins. I don't usually read that like I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah, mine was worked out going off tangent.

 

Lindsay Smith 

Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah. Anyways, I don't know. I'm sure there's a lesson in friends. 

 

Joanne Bolt 

We could talk about their copywriting all day long. All right, let's let it look like it was playing for just a second because I do want to jump in and point out because my listeners, obviously women entrepreneurs, they have podcasts that feed into their business. And I think that one thing we either overcomplicate or we don't think enough about and there's that the two sides of the scale you overcomplicated, overthink it or you don't think about it at all, is the written description of your podcast. I know a lot of people re record the intro to their podcast over and over and over again until they get it right. Yeah, me too. I've been through like 12. But how do you feel about that? That board of five sentence description that lands? You know, if you go to apple and you look up someone's podcasts immediately tells you what it's about? How critical Do you think that is? Compared to just the titles of the episodes?

 

Lindsay Smith 

I would say? How do you search for podcasts? Or how do you find podcasts that you love? I'm proud it's really, like it's usually referral based or like I'm on, you know, and your network. I would say if I had to guess I would say people have zero attention span. So the title of the episode would be probably more important than you heard of all descriptions.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Yeah. So and then from a copywriters brain? What do you focus more on the SEO of the title or the catchy title that grabbed someone's attention and pulls them in?

 

Lindsay Smith 

I'm not an SEO expert. So I can't speak to that there are lots of people who are, I would say, any using any kind of hook in your title. And this, this applies to like subject lines, your emails to I feel like that's what would do the biggest job. You know, when you use words like, you know, five tips to river blah, blah, how to Union it, leave some sort of like, Was that really clear?

 

Joanne Bolt 

The editor to do? 

 

Lindsay Smith 

Um, yeah, I have, you know, there's, there's a bunch of different ways you can, you can use hooks, talking about hooks is a whole other conversation, but they do play a big role when it comes to like your content, right. And so, you know, and I can look at like my, like, coming back or subject lines, again, like, I can look at the ones where my subject lines are, like, really funny, or really good. Like, the open rates are like 90%, because people were like, I had something. I wrote something about Dawson's Creek and like relating it to content. I think it was like 90% open rate, and people were writing and you'd be like, Oh, my God, oh, such getting yell. Oh, my God, I love what you put in the subject line. So you kind of have to be creative with this stuff. And that's what people and that's kind of like where I'm trying to, like, revolutionize the whole content thing, right? I'm like, it can be a creative process. It doesn't have to be this like, shitty. Lauren is that you have to amaze. Yeah, yes. Like, and that's kind of where, you know, like, it's just another creative expression of your business. Like, chances are we all started this business because we're creative people. And like, we weren't satisfied with what we were doing before. And this is just like, another creative expression. Like it's legit. Like think about if you're like, like, you're painting something or you're crafting or you're breaking bread or whatever. Like, I don't know, whatever you think is. Whatever you do that's creative at home. I don't know whatever it is, put me put makeup on, right, like whatever it is that you find creative. This is just another way to be creative. I love that. That's where people get stuck.

 

Joanne Bolt 

Alright, so how can people work with you find you and let's let's re remind them you said that there was a freebie on your website. What was that, and, you know, let's do all the things to put you back in their world.

 

Lindsay Smith 

So you can find me on Instagram, Lindsey Smith creative. My website is the same Lindsey Smith creative.ca I have two things that I offer. So every Tuesday 12pm Eastern Standard Time, I have like a free content and coffee. It's like a free networking group. We're all a bunch of women that kind of come together and collaborate and share ideas. Sometimes we have like a content theme like earlier today, we were talking about sustainable marketing and what that looks like. And I also have like a free mini training called Supercharge your content in five days. So it's basically you just get an email a day for five days. And I'm really when it comes to like, giving free stuff away, I really believe in just like, giving it all away. I'm not like, I'm not interested in like, this teaser mentality. I'm kind of like here, take all my best tips and go for it because I kind of feel like it doesn't replace working together with somebody. Right? So yeah, so I really give away all my best stuff and I do talk about hooks in that email training if you want to know more. All right, fantastic.

 

Joanne Bolt 

I love that. Thank you so much for being on the pod today and pouring into my community because I know that they all got so much value out of it and if I'm you know be so bold I'm gonna go ahead and just manifest out there that I will be pulling you in to do a masterclass on hooks. We can even call it hook line and sinker. Oh my god, stop it. Yeah, that's da Yeah. Okay, so that's her for her network. And as always, guys, build your business big put on Mike on it, and I'll see you same time, same place next week.

 

Joanne Bolt 

You just finished another episode of the B word podcast. Cheers to you. If I were with you, I would literally pop a big old bottle of Prosecco and pour you a glass since I'm not, why don't you do the next best thing and share this episode with one of your besties because we all know you've got that one girlfriend that needs to hear it. Thanks friends.

 

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